Show Notes
In this episode of The Localist, host Carrie Rollwagen speaks with Janet King, founder of The Gathering Lab—a social wellness initiative designed to address the growing difficulty of forming meaningful relationships as adults. Janet shares how her background in community engagement and her personal experience as a new mom led her to explore why building friendships feels so hard today. Her journey revealed that many of the traditional structures that once supported community—like churches, workplaces, and local clubs—are no longer as prevalent, leaving people socially isolated despite being constantly connected online.
The Gathering Lab’s solution is a program called Circles, which brings together small groups of people based on shared values rather than surface-level interests or professions. Through structured conversations and regular meetups, participants are able to build deeper, more authentic relationships in a time when trust and connection are in short supply. Janet also discusses the science behind human bonding, the role of vulnerability in building trust, and how her model is being applied not only for individuals but also in corporate and church settings. The episode offers both a hopeful vision and a practical roadmap for creating meaningful community in the modern world.
Mentioned in this episode:
Website: https://thegatheringlab.com/
Instagram: @thegatheringlab
Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/how-to-build-a-deeper-social-life-in-your-30s/id1842196653
Episode Transcript
Carrie
Welcome to The Localist a conversation with local makers and independent entrepreneurs. I’m your host, author of The localist book and former small business owner, Carrie Rollwagen, our guest today is Janet King, so Janna is founder of the Gathering Lab. The Gathering lab was created because Janna started noticing all of the difficulties in building community, both in her personal life and in her work life, that honestly, I think so many of us feel we know that building relationships and building communities would be better for us as people. It would be better for our society, but it’s hard to create those things. The ways that we used to build friendships don’t seem to work anymore. And what Janna says on this podcast is that’s not just us, that’s something that is kind of going on in society as a whole, and we need new ways to form those connections, new ways to connect with each other. She’s done so much study and so much research into the science behind connection, and she’s really put it into practice now the gathering lab consists of a corporate offering and also an offering for individuals that’s called circles. So if you’re interested in joining a circle, you fill out a really short form about your preferences and your values. And she does emphasize that that we really want to look at values and not just surface level interest or things like what we do for a living. So she takes that information and she matches you into a circle with people who share the same values. I’m going to let Janna dig into this more, but I just thought this conversation was so fascinating, both how the gathering lab operates as a business, and then also just what Janna has to say about what is happening to our relationships and basically how we can fix it. This episode was so interesting to me, and I think you’ll really enjoy it too. I hope that you do welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So I wanted to start off with kind of the basics, what? What inspired the gathering lab? What need is this filling for you and then also for other people? Yeah, so I feel like the gathering lab happened overnight and over the course of 10 years. You know,
Janet King
I have always been like ever since I was little, I have loved people and deep conversations. I grew up watching Oprah every single day. I’m a Scorpio like you’re you can’t miss me with a heart to heart like I am here for it. And that interest turned professional. I worked for a nonprofit consulting company for several years in community engagement. My main role was to I traveled across the country. I worked with school leaders and superintendents to help build relationships with different stakeholders in our community, so church leaders, business leaders, families and this was all in the name of, how can we better serve our students?
Janet King
And I loved this job. I loved what could happen when people who were different from each other got together and were inspired by something bigger than themselves, and what is that art of building trust with a group of people like that? And I loved it, but I also started to notice that my job was getting harder and harder to do. And I, you know, no matter where I would go, whether it was rural Sanger, Texas or Chicago or, you know, several places in Florida, it felt like, you know, best case scenario, I’d be walking into a situation where our district leaders had little to no relationships with their community, and worst case scenario, things were so polarized and heightened that we couldn’t even have a conversation about what our kindergarteners should be learning. And this really started to ratchet up over the past several years, and it broke my heart. Yeah, it burnt me out, and it left me with this question of, what is happening to our community at large, like to the state of community, what is happening? And at the same time, personally, I was going through a transformation. I had become a new mom, this company I was working for. I worked from a home, so I would travel, but I worked here in Birmingham, remotely, and I was just looking, I was in my 30s, and I was looking for that feeling of belonging, like my people were here, and I had my girlfriends to go gab with, and the people who really got me and saw me, and I had a friend be like that in my 20s in DC from college. And there’s just nothing more special than that feeling. And as I had kind of grown and evolved in my 30s, I was looking for the girlfriends who could be on the journey with me for who I am now. And it really hit home when I was like I said, a new mom busy working.
Janet King
Mom, and, you know, my husband be like, Why don’t you go, take some time for yourself. Why don’t you go, you know, find something to do. And I kept feeling like, I really wish I could go, you know, hang out with people who could fill my cup. And so that became an intention for me. And I thought, you know, let me make this a priority, and work, work the scene, get on the circuit. And so I did the thing. I did coffee chats. I went to happy hours. I, you know, I, like, I said, I didn’t have a home base at, like, a workplace. I’m not part of a religious community or church. So I really felt like I was trying to build something from scratch. And, you know, I was pretty excited for the first part. And then, you know, it felt like kind of it just would stay very surface level, and I would go to these social events, but it found it very difficult to get past, what do you do for a living? And kind of what you do this weekend? And it wasn’t that the people there weren’t amazing and cool and lovely and possible, you know, potential friends. It just felt like the conditions weren’t right for something more meaningful to happen. And on top of that, I lived a busy life. These who lived a busy life, so to actually kind of sync up enough to build something felt really, really hard. And so these two, this person, personal challenge in this professional world, these two things I was observing converged into this one big question of, you know, what is happening to our local relationships. Yeah, and why is this getting harder and harder to do? And that launched this quest, really I’ve been on for the past two and a half years, to deeply understand that and to build a solution to address it.
Janet King
The more I get into it,
Janet King
both the research and the application, and watching the people we’re serving and the struggles people are having, the more compelled and convinced I get that we absolutely need an antidote to this disconnection crisis we’re facing that I think will only accelerate with the introduction of AI
Janet King
and so something that can set us up for the next several decades to really socialize and human together in a changing world, that is what fires me up. So that’s where we started,
Carrie
well, and I think so many people are feeling that. I mean, obviously the polarization, it is interesting, because I think we all feel it in our lives, and that you were also, that was your day to day job, also, because, I think, and you kind of mentioned this, if you work in, like, I work in an office, primarily, you kind of have your little
Carrie
that’s not the same kind of relationship. And I think, yeah, I think in the past, you had churches, bowling leagues, supper clubs, these kinds of things, but they’re not it isn’t as normal, I think for everybody to be in one of those, if that makes sense,
Janet King
oh, 100% and the research backs you up on that. I mean, a big reason why we’re in the place that we’re in is that a lot of the social infrastructure we used to have is no longer as relevant. And so there’s a researcher and professor I love, Jeffrey Hall, who has this quote of like, we are no longer guaranteed The kind of day to day social interaction we need, and you now have to make a choice about it. And I can nerd out about all the reasons why we’re in this place, because I think what we have, what I have realized and stumbled upon from working with so many people around this, is that, yes, so many people are feeling it, and there’s almost this invisible crisis where I think a lot of people feel like they’re the only ones. Like, is it just me who seems to have a hard time like finding my people here? Or is it just me who hates going to these happy hours and getting asked the same question over and over again. Yeah, or is it just me who, like, like, works all day on my computer remotely and then logs off and wishes I had something to do, but we’ll just turn on Netflix instead. You know, I think we are. There’s so many of us who are in this and what we, I think, have done a good job of, just through trial and error and iteration, is naming those invisible forces to say, here’s what it takes to build strong community connection. If these are the variables, let’s look at why they are breaking down, and we name all of those challenges, and so that people are now not only, like, a little bit more empowered to know what it takes, but say, like, okay, it’s not just me. And then, you know, our solutions offer, hopefully, the ways that we can address those. But I think there’s a lot of value just in even naming, like, yes, there is something bigger at play here, yeah. And so that typical friendship advice of, just go, put yourself out there, yeah, join the chess club, and it’ll happen, you know, like, yeah, it’s just not working anymore. And then, and then I think, yeah, the for me, like, it’s, this is not just about friendship, although that is a beautiful.
Janet King
And valuable endeavor. It’s about the social fabric of our communities, and the more we trust our neighbors, the more we trust our the stranger at the coffee shop, the more of these micro interactions we have that builds up to more macro trust and belief and hope. And so I believe, as we are getting these like macro hits of all the reasons why we should be afraid of each other and not trust each other and are different from one another, we have to be building these micro hits of why we should trust one another and why there’s lots of good, decent people right around us. So I’m not sure I answered your question, but
Carrie
Well, I feel like this is, I mean, it’s so interesting. It’s so fascinating. I love that the micro and the macro trust that’s so cool. Like, one of the reasons that I really like small businesses and interacting with small businesses is because you get those micro intranet interactions with your barista every day, or whoever it is, even, oh, I’ll mention this later, but you, I think you mentioned that introverts really love the program,
Carrie
a weird connection, like it’s not networking events are more like, let me get something from you, transactional, right, right? It’s not. It’s not. Let’s connect and really get to know each other, right? Yeah, just for the fun of it, yeah, yeah. It feels like there’s an agenda to it. And even those coffees and things, I think a lot of times, are modeled after a networking event, instead of doing what you’re doing and backing up and saying, what are we really trying to do here? So even if you go to a coffee a meetup that is not supposed to be transactional. I think it ends up being that way because it’s modeled after the things that are totally Yes, and then obviously we’re interacting on social media, which I don’t think it’s a big mystery, that is probably not really good for making connections.
Janet King
It’s trans. I mean, it’s designed to, yeah, diff like, make us feel different, and it’s we are one dimensional on social media discourse is in a like, in a comment, yeah, and it’s designed to get more people using it, right? So they they kind of the algorithm makes it divisive, and it is just not a good representation of how I think about the original social network, how we were really meant to be together, and basically it’s the antithesis of how social media is designed. Yeah, so yes. I mean, I love that challenge that you gave yourself to shop locally, and even as an introvert, put yourself out there. What did you learn from that?
Carrie
I mean, it was, well, a lot. It was funny. I went into it as, really just a writing project. I’ve kind of become a small business, not kind of, I’ve become a small business advocate, but I wasn’t at the time. I really went into it, because I’d worked at this small bookstore coffee shop, and really loved it, but then I worked at Starbucks, and I also loved it and had good connections. So I thought, I’ll it was a writing project for a year. I did a blog about it. And so I thought this will be interesting, because I’ll have this is what’s good about corporate and this is what’s good about small business. And not that I didn’t find anything good about I’m not anti Corporation, but it just the evidence seemed to start piling up that it’s like, Well, wait, I actually think these things are really important. And as an introvert, it was nice to be able to have this small moment so I wasn’t having to walk into a room full of people and not know what to talk about.
Carrie
But really, after you’ve been to a local business, even like three times, usually they start to know who you are, just saying hi. And that was a lot easier to build an intranet for me when it’s like, if I don’t have it today, I can just order and not be rude and leave, and if I do and they have time, then we’ll have a little conversation, if that makes sense.
Janet King
Totally, yeah, we are meant to our we are wired to be a part of something, and the more evidence we get kind of day to day that we belong, we’re a part of a community, the better it is for our health, our happiness, our mental health, our longevity. And so I just imagine you kind of living your day and getting those hits of like, I’m a part of something. I belong here. I know this person, yeah? Because that’s how we’re designed to live.
Carrie
Yeah, I agree. So when you start.
Carrie
Digging into this, because you’re seeing it in your job, you’re seeing it in the world, you’re living it. How did you deal with that? Obviously, this is a huge thing. Yes, and like, because on the local business side, I’ve been there a little bit where it’s like, suddenly you feel like the curtains been like, moved like you’re seeing behind the curtain. You’re like, Wait, this is huge, that this is, I want to impact everyone. How do you take that, which is a lot of pressure and impossible, to do that at once, like, and make it, I guess first, how did you just not get defeated? Because I think a lot of people, we see something so big and we can’t fix it. So we just say, like, well, I can’t do anything. But did you have that feeling, or was there a way that you dealt with that
Janet King
Great question, and noticing, because I look back, I’m like, Oh, so cute. That is so cute that me Janna, two years ago, was like, I will fix the whole world, you know, all the relationships.
Janet King
I think I took like a 12 hour nap after that. And
Janet King
It has been a way for me to study and build hypotheses around what are the real barriers getting in the way, and how can we test out solutions? And that’s not to say we are. I take so seriously our method and our approach, and it’s not like an experiment, but it really is a way to be very scientific about what is happening. And at the same time, I think, as a business owner, discover what I love doing the most, what is the most compatible way for me to serve and use my gifts. Because I think I started off in a place where I thought I had to be everything to everybody, and then if I wasn’t, I’d somehow be failing. And now I’m learning, oh, I really want to be something amazing to a small group of people who get it and believe it, and that is success, too. Yeah, so I’m on that journey, yeah?
Carrie
Well, there I keep having, like, several rabbit trails I want to go on, but kind of tell me about you said, like at the dinner you talked about you had specific things you did to, kind of like that we’re based on how we bond as humans. Can you talk about what, what that was, what what those things are, or were at the time, and maybe how that’s evolved? Yeah, for sure.
Janet King
I love the OG models. So kind of the, I don’t know that was a beta, like, the best working version of the original model was, you know, I kind of set it up like this. If, in the typical social world, I guess we default to people we already know, or typically people who are like us on kind of some surface level way, or these identity markers, like, that’s how we make initial ties at the gathering lab, we you would have built a profile, and I would match groups who maybe looked different across those factors, but shared a deeper affinity and typically around shared values. So I’d match a group really intentionally. That’s the first part. The second part is that our typical social experiences feel transactional, like we’re trying to get something from each other. There’s an agenda too, and at the Gann lab, we started with a place of genuine connection. So actually, one of our rules was you cannot talk about what you do for a living, yeah. And we had some structure throughout the evening to find different points of connection, okay, but it really like people struggled, and it flipped the script of like, Oh, wow. How much is that? Often the lens by which we get to know each other and which can shut us off from all these other dimensions we have, yeah, and then we have a guided structure like, you know, typically I feel like when, especially in a new setting, but even with old friends and circles, it feels like we’re having the same conversation over and over again. What’d you do this weekend? What trips have you gone on? Blah, blah, blah, and we have a really intentional, guided structure that makes it easy to go from the lighter to the meaningful. And this is based on social penetration theory, that there’s a pattern we follow in terms of self disclosure when we build deeper relationships. So we follow that pattern in our conversations. And then finally, a lot of this was the struggle with the original model, actually, but we need consistent interaction. And a lot of times we’re getting together and it’s one off, or it takes months to get back together, or whatever, and we, through our current model circles, create that consistent, repeated interaction so that you can build momentum through people. And in the dinner form, it was so what it actually looked like is you would show up and you would have a sticker.on your name tag, and you would have to find your matching sticker colors and try to discover what interest you have in common. Okay, so you are trying to your the idea there is, like, ask better small talk questions, like, more like, what you do this weekend? More like, if you had a day off, like, what would you be doing? Yeah, also a little fun competition, because I would make the group something like, you got it wrong, yeah? And that’s always fun,
Carrie
kind of like that celebrity game, but you’re the celebrity Exactly,
Janet King
yeah? Which at the getting lab, that’s my opinion. Yeah, we’re all awesome, yeah, and then you would make a meal together, which we part of how we bond is through activity or vulnerability. And vulnerability can be happening in conversations through vulnerability loops, more and more sharing of each other’s weaknesses, if you will. But it can also happen in like, Hey, do you know how to cook chicken? Because I don’t know how to cook chicken, and I’m gonna trust you to cook this chicken and not make me sick. And so all that negotiating has to happen when you’re making a meal together and and it’s like I said, how we would, how we used to live and be with one another. So there’s something primal that kicks in of being in a group, kind of tending to a meal together and making sure it all happens and and then we would break out into pairs. I would match people, and there would be a series of questions to ask your partner. Y’all would be matched on several values and interests. And that was based on 36 questions for how to fall in love with anyone. I pull some from there.
Janet King
And.
Janet King
And then at dinner, the whole group would come back together and there would be Sun and Moon questions on the table, and Sun questions are easy, breezy conversation starters and Moon questions were a little more thought provoking. And all of these questions were customized to this particular group, so you knew you would be picking up questions that this group would love to talk about. So for example, the group loved reading. You know, one question might be like, what’s a book you’ve loved lately, right? And how did you discover it? And then oftentimes, you know, a moon question might be, this group has been matched on a top value of empathy. Who did you learn this from? Yeah, and there are no gotcha questions. And that is by design, because we want to start from this place a very positive, genuine connection, yeah. And the the hypothesis is, or the bet is, we start from that place, we can build something a lot more quickly. But too often in the world, I think we’re starting from our deficits or these kind of shallow ways that don’t really mean much to who we are as humans, yeah. And so it kind of is trying to flip that script, yeah.
Carrie
I think that’s all of that is really fascinating. Did you come up with these, like, the moon questions and the game and all of like, were you finding these from other research you were doing? And like, this is cool. I want to incorporate this. Or is there, like, a is there a guide to, like, how to throw a dinner party? Or how did you come up with this?
Janet King
All my own research. I mean, obviously influenced by amazing thinkers. John levy has been big influence,
Janet King
and that’s cool, yeah. And part of that has been my journey to, like, tease out our special sauce and put it all together and really claim that, yeah, yeah, so. But it was really, honestly uplifting and inspiring to see it work every time, yeah. I mean, obviously some groups do better than others, but to watch it work every time, even at Yeah, we did some at a University of Alabama with Gen Z, who everyone’s like, like, talk about is, you know, they’re always on their phones, whatever. And I mean, for sure, they were a little bit more awkward, I’m not gonna lie, especially in the beginning, yeah, but by the end of the night, they were in the same place that our 30 year old, you know, our adults were, yeah, which would tell me we are wired for this. Yeah? Have the capacity to do it. The we’re living in a time where we’re not using that muscle. Yeah, and it’s just not natural. It doesn’t happen anymore by default. So I that honestly fueled me too, yeah,
Carrie
well, tell me how. Okay, so you were doing this all in your house, all centered around dinner, basically.
Carrie
How did you did you switch from that because you wanted things to be different. You wanted to continue those relationships, or, because you it’s not scalable to continue to do these in your house. Or was it all of the above, other things, how did you make the transition and kind of tell us what it looks like now?
Janet King
Yeah. I mean, all of it. Yeah, I never started the gathering lab dinner version as, like, the business ideas that make sense. I just started, started, yeah? And so there came a moment I was like, I cannot be hosting dinner parties, yeah, week at my own house. Yeah, I’m a mom, you know? You know, I just, I couldn’t exhausting me and
Janet King
and at the same time, you know that we were getting more and more interesting invitations to try this method out, because people will be like, we want this to happen at our workplace, but we can’t do it at a dinner party. Yeah. So like, is there a way we can make this happen in a different way? So that really, like, helped me experiment and remove some assumptions around what has to be. They have to make a meal together for this to work, yeah. And so all of that was about my willingness to take a risk. It’s scary, it’s weird, I think, to have started off with something that worked so well, yeah? And then have to, kind of, I don’t say, strip it for parts, but like tea, you know, tease out what is the thing that can be more sustainable. So we had a lot of I think one of my favorite parts of my job, too, is who we attract, especially in terms of, like clients, because we, I worked with a lot of lovely people who really understood what we were doing and the power of it, and were willing to try something new with us. And so that is kind of how we evolved it. I mean, we tried the method more or less in a lot of different settings, ranging from a coalition that was launching to Team break or building sessions at album Empower, to more socials in the community and and so, you know, I think also in that time, I was realizing, before. Were coming to us like, we want to do the method, but we also want to hear you talk about why this is important, yeah. So I really people were coming to us for that perspective and the breaking down of the science really, of like, what does it take to build a strong connection? Yeah. Why is it so hard right now? And so that became part of the offering too, especially in the corporate world. But my heart was in, and still is in the like consumer, if you will, the individual. And so as we honestly were getting more and more success in the corporate world, but I it felt important to me to maintain a an offering, an exploration of how this could work for the individual? Yeah? And that’s when I launched circles. And that was an attempt, and is an attempt, and, you know, a good one to get a little more niche, because if we’re ever going to tackle this in the community, that’s really where I have to start. Niche, yeah, I believe and solve a very specific problem for a group of people, yeah. And do it really well. So what I noticed about who was coming most of the gathering lab, was a lot of women, a lot of women in their 30s and 40s. A lot of women who worked remotely in or were transplants here had similar stories to me, yeah, and who really cared about deeper, authentic friendships and felt like that was missing or hard to find in the day to day. And that, to me, was like, wow, what would the PAM like, the power of bringing that group of people together and how them go through something like the gathering lab like, What could that be? What could that do? So circles launched. We did our first one in February of this year, literally up until the day my son was born, yeah. I was like, in the hospital calling my facilitator, like, I’m having the baby right now. Yeah. Can you do the closing ceremony? Yeah, so that happened, and then we just launched, or we just wrapped up summer circles, which is our second cohort and and we’re also doing the circles model in a few different settings this summer we I really wanted to try it out in a couple different ways, including at album power, like a large company, and at a local church. So very different context, but a similar idea of intentionally matched groups people who are opting in to community building and their place, and intentionally matched groups, and this kind of guided, multi touch point experience, we’ve designed these Hangouts that go from the spark, hangout is your interest and what lights you up, to your shared values, to your purpose, to gifts, and then finally, you are seen, which is my favorite hangout. So these, like I said, are kind of stacked intentionally. So that’s what it looks like right now. Looks like right now, and that helps solve that missing piece from the dinner, which was that consistent touch point. So, yeah, I mean, and it’s still a process. I mean, I think we are evolving always and learning what our kind of key offering is for who my you know, I think my challenge of this has been focus. And not to say I’m like, not focus and discipline, but more like, my heart is too big, and we have so many people coming to us to say, Can we try here? Can try there? And for a while, that was fun, and it worked. And now I like, feel the charge to really narrow in and decide where we’re building, yeah, and so that is an ongoing journey. Yeah.
Carrie
Has it been a challenge to get people to pay for this or to develop? Because I do think so often we think like, as you’ve been explaining, and I think we all feel this, like friendships don’t really organic, like it is very difficult, but it seems like a lot of people still feel like that should happen and that it’s like, well, I shouldn’t have to pay has that been a hurdle? And like, have you have? Have you dealt with that? I guess, yeah,
Janet King
very good question. It hasn’t. It hasn’t. I mean, I’d say the biggest hurdle has been my own mindset around charging, yeah, I was thinking back to, like, my dinner prices were like $30 you know, which wouldn’t even I wasn’t. I was barely buying on those, yeah. And so part of it has been, I think, my own mindset around, really, you know, knowing the value we are creating for people and what we are doing to solve a really hard problem, and like, we are getting more and more evidence that people will pay for this solution. And, you know, I’m still testing kind of that configuration of, what is that price point, and is it sustainable for us and or what portfolio do we need? I also think a lot of companies are interested. I mean, one of the main reasons why talent leaves any place is because they don’t find their people here. They don’t feel that community. And so a lot of companies have been interested in what we’re doing, because they spend so much recruiting money. And then, I think especially in a city like Birmingham that’s pretty insular and hard to break into it. It’s a it can be a difficult setup, yeah. And so I’m trying to stay creative about all the ways that this idea can be supported, whether that’s through corporate sponsorship or individuals. But honestly, the price has been a selling point for our a lot of our customers, because if you have been struggling with this and frustrated with the way of the world, yeah, you’re like, finally, you know, I’m signing up for a group of people who have also paid right and committed to this makes sense, and saving me so much time and money. Because one of the things we keep hearing a lot, too, is like this investment mismatch, even if you meet someone cool these days, yeah, so hard to know what someone’s really available for, right? Yeah? Who’s actually available for putting in the time to build something new? Yeah? And so we there’s value that we are creating by bringing those people together.
Carrie
What do you think? I mean? Because I see the value of it, I just don’t know, I think. But I also see the value in not outsourcing, but paying for other things in life when it’s like, I don’t have the time, or I can’t do this myself. So I did wonder if there, yeah, like, if there was pushback. But that makes total sense, and I also see it from a corporate side. I was watching a conversation with Simon Sinek and somebody else, and they were talking about, they actually started off talking about how like so often now we think in our romantic partner, we’re supposed to get everything and that that’s actually like pretty bad for your romantic partnership, and it’s better to have friends and have other people where it’s like you’re getting some people, you know, like things from other people. And they made that connection, that they were saying it’s kind of like that in work too, that we used to have, all these groups that were having these connection and now we want all of it from work. Yes, so we’re saying like my work has to align with my personal beliefs, my political beliefs, all of these things which workplaces aren’t really designed to be able to do, to match every single person in the company. So I could also see that these connections are good because then you aren’t. It’s almost like you’re not expecting your company to provide all of this direction for your whole personal life, which I thought was really interesting. And even in a small business, I feel like sometimes we are trying to be like all things to all people, like where will fulfill all your needs, which is just not possible or healthy with an organization who’s literally paying you to do stuff. So I actually, like, really see why a corporation would say, like, Yes, this is good for for our people,
Janet King
yeah. And I think, too, I think our our understanding of health has evolved to highlight how much social fitness is a part of it. And if you think about companies investing in all these health and wellness benefits because of the longevity of their employees, yeah, mental health, yeah, I think we’re at a time when we recognize that social fitness is a big part of that. And yet, you know, I think about, like the we used to be naturally, very active, right? We had to go find our food. We had to, like, do things physically, to like, make our lives happen. The industrial revolution comes along. We become a lot more sedentary during the day. And so, you know, this whole fitness industry booms over the next 100 years, where you actually pay and go to places to find physical activity, because it’s important to our health. Yeah, I’m not saying like we need, like, a social health industry to boom from here, but I think we’re at a similar moment, which is this thing that used to organically happen in our lives is no longer the world’s no longer designed for it to happen, right? And so how do we fill that need? Because it’s really important to how we survive and thrive on so many
Carrie
levels. Yeah. Well, how does your team or do you have a team, and if so, like, how did that evolve? Was it an easy choice, or was it difficult to say, like, just like, it would be difficult to charge for things which I do the same thing. I am really good at giving away way too much for free. But was that, do you like, do you have that team now? Was that easy to build, or was it a struggle and be like, I should put everything I have into the Does that make sense?
Janet King
Yeah. I mean, I don’t think it’s a surprise that I love working with people. Like, I’m a collaborative collaborator by heart, and I love playing on a team. I love playing on an A plus team, yeah. And so I have been, I think, really eager to work with people on this. And I have, there have been a few people who have come into the mix. And I, one point, had a co founder who I loved and worked with for several years. She ended up having a health crisis and needing to step out. And so it has been a more solo journey than I would say I anticipated, but I look back at that, I have an awesome community host facilitator who’s local here, and she helps me with circles and a lot of other events, and she’s amazing. But besides that, it’s just me and. And I think that’s okay right now, because, as you probably can hear, the vision is evolving, and I want to be really I think it’s only fair to bring people on when I can be truthful about what I can compensate them for, where we’re going, the type of work we’re taking on now, that’s not to say there’s not someone who’s down for the ambiguous, like, let’s just figure it out path, and maybe that person is coming, but it has felt clear to me that I have work to do to get clear about the vision I want for this company.
Carrie
It’s also easier to pivot, like when you are still changing and iterating, when you’re not trying to get like, these four or five other people on board, and,
Janet King
right, yeah, it doesn’t feel like a fair thing, right? It’s easier to pivot. And that’s been an important thing I’ve been needed to do. And I, you know, I just had a baby, and yeah, I needed to, like, step out and and, like, get my sea legs back on all that. So right now, it’s felt right to be the person who, the only person right now who’s kind of charting the path. But I’m eager for the day when I just can see the bad, bad ass to you, but I know that they will be here with me one day, and it’s okay that it’s evolving right now. Yeah. But and I say I took maternity leave. I was only able to do that because I had an awesome person who knew our process on the back end and could help me out, and a facilitator. So there have certainly been people who have made this journey possible.
Carrie
Yeah, I think that’s awesome. So can you walk us through? So if somebody join, wants to join a circle, wants to, like, kind of say, what is even going to happen? I’ll, like, you go to the website, there’s a, kind of a quiz, is that where it starts? Is that the first step, and then kind of say, like, what actually happened? Yeah, right.
Janet King
Yeah. So you know what I really imagine circles to be is almost like a social life reboot. I really have this phrase between my is like a social Renaissance. And I think we are all kind of we are post covid, three or four years, picking our heads up and being like what happened in my life, and I’m bored all the time, or I’m frustrated or annoyed and everything sad and what happened to my life, like, where’s the joy? Where’s the parties, where’s the connection? And where do I even start? And I want us to be the plate, the trusted place to start. If you are feeling that way, and if you’re really craving more depth and meaning in your social life and joy. Frankly, I think that is a factor we are missing across the board in our life. Yeah, so there’s, we have a lot of joy factor building what we do. So that’s what I imagine circles. If you’re feeling that way of like, I just need a place to start. Yeah, we are that trusted place. And if you go to our website, you will kind of see that we, what we do is, you know, it’s a commitment, both time and money, and so it is what we hear. I hear a lot from folks who are in that season are coming to us. It’s this feeling of like, I know I need to make relationships, community a priority. It’s an intention of mine, and I don’t really know where how to do that right now, like it just feels overwhelming. And so y’all made that easy, yes, right? I could say yes one time. I could commit to these four Hangouts, and I would knew by the end of it, a lot of those, the emotional labor of finding good friendships, yeah, would be handled, right? And so you fill out the profile. We right now are doing kind of seasonal cohorts. So we will have a fall one and then a winter, and we will let you know if you’ve been matched into our fall cohort. And then when you’re applying, you let us know. Yes, I can commit to these four to six dates, or I can’t. I need to go to another cohort, and that’s really important, because circles only works to the extent that people show up, right? Yeah, I think we have forgotten that about community building. We want community, but we want to be able to flake out whenever we don’t feel like
Carrie
going, like, I joined the book club. Why do I have to go? Right?
Janet King
And so it’s very clear when you join us, like, Yeah, this is a we don’t I don’t care about your money as much as I care about your time, right, and how you show up. And so that is clear when you go through the process
Carrie
and the money is enough to commit, but it isn’t like a right? It’s not like you’re going to have to typically. It’s not like $5,000 or something. It’s not, yes, it’s a
Janet King
reasonable. It is a reasonable, especially if it’s, you know, I think we’re all willing to pay for things that are priority, yeah, I’m willing to pay for fancy gym memory, yeah, like how my body feels, yeah, when I work out. And so it’s equivalent to that, right? Yeah. And so if you’re a place like, how to make this a priority, you sign up with us. You get mashed into our cohort. We have a fun kickoff event, and we had a thank you books last time. I really like this idea of connecting people to places locally. So I really try to think of what are natural community building spaces, local businesses? Yeah, that. They are aligned, yeah? And it was a great night, you know? And people bought a lot of books, which I love, yeah? And so we have this magical kickoff night where you get to meet people in the cohort, and you meet your circle. And like I said, everything is structured. I mean, not overkill. But we really want, we really appreciate that feeling, especially if you’re an introvert, of like, oh, wow, I just signed up for something in up for something, and now I have to go to this group of people, and I’m gonna walk in that door, and what is gonna happen, yeah, right, we get how big a risk you’re taking, yes. And so the whole process is baked to feel like a friend is walking you through it, right? And when you show up, everything will be handled, yes. And so we have this really magical evening, and you meet with your circle, and you get to know them, and then you have, you know, we’re still figuring out the kind of amount, but you have several hangouts after that with your circle, and from us, you get a structure for each hangout. Like I said, it follows kind of interest to values, to purpose and gifts to this you are seeing activity, and I’m working through how we balance that cohort experience and circle experience. So right now, it’s really focused on that circle experience, but I think it might evolve to be more of a cohort experience, and how we do perhaps different Hangouts. Maybe it includes a local workout at a gym. There are so many great local businesses who are doing their own community building. Yeah, is there a way to sync up? Yeah? And kind of drive relationships. Because having talked to a lot of local business owners, those relationships are so important in this day and age. That is why people come into your store, yeah, because they feel some sort of connection to what you’re doing and who you are. Otherwise, it is just way too convenient to get everything online. Yeah. And so if we can be a channel or a funnel for that, that really fires me up, too. So like I said, you have this really intentionally matched group with people who are within five years your age and share your top values, and you go through this guided hangouts together, yeah, over four to six weeks. And you can also opt in to get matched one on one with someone from the entire circles community, who we think you’d be a great fit for. And we set you up for a coffee chat. Yeah? So the idea is, by the end of four to six weeks, you said yes, once you’ve gotten four social things, yeah, you have met five to six women who are your age, share your values, who are committed to building community, and you’re part of now the circles community, which, tonight, we’re having a circles alumni reunion for all of our cohorts, which, you know, the exponential factor of that just planning is really fun to think about. And my job is fun because I’m at, you know, a local coffee shop, and I have some circles come up to me and say, Hey, I’m going to so and so’s baby shower next week. You know, she finally, she’s having a baby, and we’re all our circles going to support her, or I got a new job from someone in circles. And yeah, and it’s just this manifestation of everything I believe about the power of relationships. Yeah, it is so fun to like see that happening in our community. Yeah? And be an engine for
Carrie
that, yeah, well, I think that’s awesome. So and So, if people are connecting, like, if, okay, so that is, that’s the option for people to join. Are, if they apply for a circle, is there a pretty good, pretty good chance they’ll get one? Or is it, like, it’s a very small group, and you apply again next season.
Janet King
Yeah, it’s, um, it’s about, right now the sweet spot has been about 25 women, and it’s also we, you know, are trying to make some cohort compatibility. Yeah, that’s part of it’s not like you’re not qualified, yeah? But you know that clip might change, yeah, right now it’s happening seasonally, but I am exploring other ways to I’m there’s wonderings I have about if it has to be, there are other touch points we can offer, yeah, or ways to kind of work with us that don’t have to be, that you have to wait to the next season’s cohort, you know? So I’m hoping those are on the horizon.
Carrie
Yeah, yeah. I think that’s awesome. And so if, if people are wanting to connect with these ideas, because I think you have so much to share, and obviously have done so much research, and I felt like you did volunteer some of the people that you read and that you’ve researched, but I have a feeling that you could have gone, yes, the whole podcast on that. So do you have, I think we talked about before we started, you have maybe a podcast plan where you will share more of that.
Janet King
So, yeah, here are a couple ways you can get involved with us. So I am planning to launch a podcast right now. It’s called How to build a social life. Yeah, and it really my plan is to break down the invisible barriers that are getting in the way that makes us feeling more disconnected than ever. And really land this point that it is not just you. Here’s what it takes for us to build bonds, and here’s why we can’t do it organically anymore. Yeah, and here are ways that we can make this work in the in the modern world. I the most inspiring way I see this is, yes, our social paradigm is collapsing. Hmm, the old rules don’t work anymore. It feels like everything is falling apart, and we are feeling that tension of like, wow. Where do we go from here as humans? Yeah, and I believe, you know, it’s always darkest before the dawn, and that it really it is a calling for a new way to socialize, and I think it is a charge for us to be more intentional and authentic and conscious of how we build community, and that’s what our podcast is about. Like, practical the science behind it, practical tips for how you can find this in your day to day life. And also, like, what is the future? Yeah, of socializing because we can’t give up on each other. Yeah. I like, I mean, the point that still stays with me is that it’s not just that we are disconnect from another. For the first time in history, we were becoming more anti social. We were actually withdrawing from one another, yeah. And so I believe, like, we need to find the way to reimagine what’s possible and reconnect with the joy and power of human relationships, yeah. So plus give you some fun ways to, like, have better parties, yeah, and find, like, awesome people in your own community. And so that’s what our podcast will be about. We also, if you go to our website, following our newsletter is the best way to kind of just keep up with how we evolve. You can apply to circles. We do still some corporate work. So if you are a company that’s interested in doing this for your people, I’m happy to have that conversation. And we are about to launch a social life calculator where you can kind of plug in your current state, and based on our own sites, we can give you a quick little result on how your the quality of your social life and
Carrie
where you might want to focus. Well, I think that’s really awesome. And people can do so much of that even before your podcast launches, they can still search for it and follow it. Yep, and that way you’ll get an alert when you guys they’ll get an alert when you guys start posting.
Janet King
It is up right now on Apple and Spotify. You’re welcome to follow the trailers up. You can follow us, so that you’ll know when we are
Carrie
awesome. And then the quiz, I took it right before we sat down, actually the friendship quiz. It did, I think it says three minutes, and that was about correct. So, so that, if anybody’s listening, that is a very short, not a not a huge barrier, and you’re not paying at that point, and you’re not committing at that point, you just get the details if you’re matched, right?
Janet King
And I’m very aware that there’s a meta thing happening here where anyone who comes to us is also building a relationship with us, yeah, and so I want anyone who signs on to what we’re doing to feel really comfortable and confident in how we’re doing it, and that’s partly why the podcast will exist. You can get to know what we’re about, yeah. But also, if you’re just interested, you want to get a feel for us, like, take the quiz, take the questionnaire, and get to know more about circles to see if it’s right fit for you. And it’s also, it can be it’s okay if it’s not the right time,
Carrie
yeah, yeah. Well, I like that about it too, that you get the dates and you’re like, Yes, I can do these dates. Or what was I thinking? This is a bad quarter or a bad season or whatever, and I’m still interested, but not right now. You know? I think that also, I mean, you know this, but that shows that you do know what’s going on with people. I think which this is already set up, that’s part of how it set up. So differently than other things that are going on, I think so. Well, thank you so much for coming on and talking about it. And, yeah, think this is fascinating, both on just like the personal level and how we build those relationships, and also just setting up this kind of business is pretty interesting, too. So Well,
Janet King
thanks, Carrie. I appreciate the work and platform you are giving other local businesses. And thank you, like you said, it’s all about the micro. Yeah, I appreciate you, and I’m glad I could hopefully offer something to your listeners today.
Carrie
Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much. Thanks. The localist podcast is written by me Carrie Rollwagen, and it’s produced here at infomedia studios. We help people with podcasts, with social media clips. We can also help with your website, or with your website copy or anything else, really, in your digital footprint, we would love to help with so if you’re interested, head to infomedia com and fill out that contact form. Let us know what you need. And if we can help you, we’ll let you know. And if we can’t, we’ll let you know that too. I have a whole team here at infomedia studios who helps me with the podcast. Hannah craigen is our outreach manager. Taylor Davis is our producer, and Paul Bryant is in the studio with me. He’s our sound engineer. Until next time, here’s to thinking global by acting local and putting small shops before big. Box. you.